Ep. 94 - It's Not Pain, It’s Power with Carina Devi: Part 1

Connect with Carina:

Carina Devi is a childbirth educator, former doula, herbalist, writer, and mother to two. She co-founded the Mindful Mamas app supporting mothers’ mental health and teaches trauma-informed mindfulness at Eastern Oregon University. Her biggest passion is democratizing empowered birth education.

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/matriarchmedicine.co/

Episode Transcript

Debra Pascali-Bonaro: Birth is a great teacher. I love when parents share their birth stories, and we can learn the lessons that each birth gives them. Listening, learning and preparing for birth is key to learning lessons that will better prepare you for a pleasurable birth in new ways without having to learn by trial and error as too often happens when people are unprepared. My guest today will share her two pleasurable birth stories, and how her second birth she describes as it’s not pain, its power. If you’d like to positively prepare for childbirth with more of our tools and resources gathered from teaching thousands of people all around the world, check out my pleasurable birth essentials class, or my private birth coaching at orgasmicbirth.com for parents. 

Hi, I’m Debra Pascali-Bonaro, Founder and Director of Orgasmic Birth, and host of the Orgasmic Birth Podcast. My guest today is Carina Devi. Carina is a childbirth educator, a former doula, an herbalist, a writer and a mother of two. She Co-Founded the Mindful Mamas App, supporting mother’s mental health, teaches trauma informed mindfulness at EOU. And her biggest passion is democratizing empowered birth education. 

Welcome, Carina. It is such an honor to welcome you, reading about your bursts and about your own being born truly made me excited for today.

Carina Devi: Thank you. I’m so happy to be here talking with you.

Debra Pascali-Bonaro: I have to say that when I read that your own mother described your birth as orgasmic, I thought, wow. I have to ask you, because people ask me, how do you think babies and children feel knowing that their parents had an orgasmic birth? And you’re the first person I can ask on our podcast that question. How did it feel to you knowing that growing up?

Carina Devi: It didn’t strike me as anything unusual. My mom would tell me, my sister and my brother, she would tell us all our birth stories on every birthday. So every birthday, no matter what we were doing, if we were in the car going to Disneyland, or we were setting up for a birthday party, however we were celebrating, there would come the moment of, are you ready to hear about the story of your birth? Sometimes, it was a bit of an eye roll like, ah, Mom, I’ve heard this before. But I just kind of always loved it. She would tell me a little bit about her births with my older brother and sister. She really didn’t like them, she had to fight so much. It was really traumatic for her. And so when she knew I was going to be her last baby, it was like, okay, this is my chance. I’m going to give birth the way that I want. And what she really wanted was a water birth. I don’t know where she had heard about them or learned about them, but there was a birth center about three hours away from us. And so she would pile her two little kids into this old truck and drive three hours each way to every midwife appointment. She almost had me on the side of the road. So it was her third baby, so it wasn’t the longest labor. And she would always tell me about how the moment she slipped into the water. 

She lived in Hawaii for a while, so it just brought her back to that place of being in the water, on the beach. Just feeling so warm and relaxed. And she loved to share that she was falling asleep between contractions. And at one point, her midwife had to kind of like, hey, wake up. We need you to push your baby out. And she was like, oh, okay. I don’t know if she used the word orgasm until I was maybe a teenager, but she always said that it was the most wonderful sensation she had ever felt in her life, and how it was so incredibly rewarding. And then she has a water baby. And waterbirth, I ended up being a Pisces. I feel very much like a Pisces. Then she has always said that I was her calmest, gentlest, easiest baby. And she really attributes it to that, just fully empowered, peaceful birth that she had. So I loved hearing that story growing up. I was always just like, yes. Tell me more details.

Debra Pascali-Bonaro: What a beautiful tradition. Because I often talk about knowing our own coming into the world, our own birth, and the birth in our family is so important. They imprint on us. Now, how do you think having a knowing and really feeling your story impacted when you became pregnant? Kind of take us back to your first pregnancy and your preparation?

Carina Devi: I have only just recently realized just how important it was. How impactful that being my first impression of birth was. Because by the time I started watching movies, nine months and knocked up where they have these just outrageous, dramatic birth scenes, this huge drama, I had already had this imprint of birth can be peaceful, it can be enjoyable, it can be the experience you’re most proud of in your life. And so I didn’t really realize until just this last baby how important that was. How grateful I am that that happens. So my first pregnancy was actually when I was 17. I got unexpectedly pregnant, and it was one of those where, I was on the pill, we used a condom. I took Plan B right away. And somehow, I still ended up pregnant. And so I kind of had this sense of like, whoa, there’s something here for me in addition to the overwhelm and the shock of being 17 and pregnant. At the time, the business of being born had come out. It was the exact same time when I was trying to figure out, what do I do? How do I tell my mom? Oh, my God, she’s gonna kill me. And so I went with her to a screening of the business of being born, and it was my first time learning about doulas. I really got introduced into the world of midwifery. I saw in the movie how much of a gift it was to give birth, how much it impacted these women for the rest of their lives in such a positive way. And I knew that not only if I was going to have this baby, that was the experience I wanted. I knew that I wanted to do things on my own terms. But I also have this sense of like, I don’t know nearly as much about this process happening in my own body as I feel like I should. 

I was always the one among my friend groups who was like doling out tampons. Oh, here’s what you should do for cramps. I loved being a woman, and I loved women’s knowledge and wisdom. So even in spite of that, I was like, I have no idea what’s happening in my belly right now. I really want to know more. So seeing the business of being born just kind of lit the fire within me. I started this compulsive researching phase where I go on midwives blogs, everything I could find that was different from what some of my older friends and female relatives were experiencing in their birth processes, which were kind of the status quo. It was inconvenient, it was painful. Just give me an epidural, just get it over with. So that was such a formative experience. And then I still had no idea what I was going to do, but then I miscarried. And when I miscarried, it was actually a very spiritual experience. I had a dream right before it happened where there was this little twinkling star in the sky, and she told me her name. And she said, I’ll come back for you when you’re ready. And then I woke up, and the miscarriage process had started. And so it all felt very spiritual. It felt like I was being set on this path of discovering my purpose, even though I didn’t know that that’s really what it was at the time. But that inspired me to become a doula, that got me even deeper into the world of midwifery. And I just fell in love with the world of birth. So by the time I had my first baby, I had been this birth junkie for maybe eight years or so. I was 25 when I had my first baby. 

So whatever 17 to 25 is, I was so excited. I had wanted to be a mother for the longest time. It always felt like my calling. I didn’t really have too many career aspirations. It was like, I want to be a mom. That’s what’s in my heart. So by the time I got pregnant, it was like, okay, let’s use all of this. Let’s use all of the knowledge we have learned. Let’s use all of the wisdom. We’ve had the ability to be exposed, and let’s make this the most enjoyable, wonderful experience possible. So I knew I wanted to hire a midwife. I hired two of my best doula friends to be with me. I hired a birth photographer. We got the birth pool. I had the essential oils, the music. I did Hypnobirthing. I just wanted to use every resource I knew of to give myself the best chance possible. And it was a really beautiful pregnancy. It was challenging in my personal life. My marriage was sort of falling apart at the time, but there was this really clear contrast of, when my husband and I at the time we’re together, things were really challenging, really heartbreaking, just kind of falling apart no matter what we did to keep it together. But when it was just me and my baby, there was this incredible connection to nature, to my spirituality, to myself as a woman, I’m just gaining weight. For the first time feeling, my thighs rub together. I’d always been so thin my whole life. Feeling myself so voluptuous and expanding was just one of the most divine experiences. It was so enriching. I kept thinking, if this is good. Pregnancy is this good. What’s the birth gonna be like? 

I had read Orgasmic Birth by Elizabeth Davis, and I think you as well. I had read Painless Childbirth by Giuditta Tornetta, and I knew that these experiences were possible. I didn’t expect to have a painless, pleasurable birth, but I knew it was on the table. I knew that it was possible for me, which I felt like was an important distinction because I’ve heard so many moms say like, oh, yeah. Other moms experienced that. Or like, that’s great that you had a painless birth, but not me, Everything’s hard for me. I really wanted to own that. I can’t have this. I don’t expect it, but I know it’s in the realm of possibility. So I felt like that was an important place to go into labor from. So I went to 40 weeks and four days. I kind of had a textbook, Labor Progression. I started to feel some mild, early labor contractions. Let my birth team know. I don’t think anything’s happening. But just so you know, they’re about 10 minutes apart, and I was so enjoying getting to know the sensations. Because when you’re pregnant, you have no idea what labor is going to feel. You can hear descriptions from thousands of women and still feel like you’re in the dark, and you just don’t know. And for me, I was so relieved and surprised to feel like I was being hugged around the hips, as if from a child who missed me. There was this sense of a deep, good squeeze. And it was so delightful. So I went to bed that night, and I woke up around midnight, 1:00 AM. I had this knowing that I’m about to have my strongest contraction yet, and it’s gonna break my water. And that’s exactly what happened.

Debra Pascali-Bonaro: Wow, isn’t that amazing? Your connection and intuition. That is beautiful. So your water releases. And now what?

Carina Devi: I go into the bathroom, let’s check things out. What’s happening? And I call my midwife, and she had given me some pH paper to test the liquid. Because sometimes, you’re not sure if the pee is fluid, and it turns dark blue immediately. So we knew it was amniotic fluid. And she’s like, okay, let me know how things progressed. Keep me updated. I’ll stay close. I hung up the phone with her and instantly started shaking. I was surprised because I was so looking forward to this. But suddenly, there was just this electric anxiety that kind of washed over me. And I had this, shit, I have to do this now. Whatever this is, it’s fun. This is the day, there’s no turning back. And so I listened to my Hypnobabies track of fear release, and it was exactly what I needed. Exactly what I needed it to do. So I felt really good. I went back to bed, and I just kind of labored in my sleep. And then I think I woke up around 5:00 or 6:00 AM and my midwives were standing over me. I had told my husband at the time very explicitly, do not bring anyone over until I tell you I’m ready. I just knew that I wanted my privacy. I wanted my space. And so to see them right there, I was instantly I just felt kind of like I had lost some trust, or I felt like a little violated. Whoa, what are you guys doing in my space? Instantly, my labor stops. Of course, I feel watched. I go out into the rest of the house and there’s this kind of big open space kitchen, dining room, living room area, and everyone is there. My husband too. Midwives, both doulas. I don’t think the birth photographer is there yet, but all the lights are on. There’s music playing, there’s loud conversation. I didn’t say anything at the time, I was just kind of baffled. You guys are all amazing birth workers, and you know that this is not the environment to create in a birth space. I was silently fuming, making myself some breakfast. And then I announced to everyone, I’m gonna go outside. I’ve got some clary sage oil on a tissue, I’m gonna go outside, I’m taking my husband with me, and I’m gonna go get my labor started again. You guys stay here with your bright lights and everything, I’m gonna go get the show on the road. So at the time, we lived in this really beautiful property, amazing gardens, and it was about 20 acres. There was some forest, it was just gorgeous. And this was the most perfect spring day. The sun was shining, birds were singing, just flowers everywhere, it was heaven. And so I just walked around for a while, smelling my clary sage and rubbing my belly. It’s soaking in some sun, I feel my contraction. And then in between, I would squat down beyond the grass real quick. And by the time I got up, I would have another contraction. So that was my rhythm for, I don’t know how long it felt, very timeless. And a little while later, the midwives and the doulas came up. And my doula noted something that was really important for me to realize. She said, I noticed that whenever you talk, whenever you engage in conversation with someone, your contraction stops for a few minutes. I was like, oh, you’re right. I hadn’t quite gotten that I didn’t have to talk, I didn’t have to respond to questions or keep people updated on what I was feeling. So I just kind of gave myself permission to go inward a little more, just kind of tune everything out and not have to be so engaged. And one thing she also noted was like, notice how you can control the sensations. And so I really leaned into that. I had never known that. I had never heard any of my Doula clients talk about it. I never heard anyone in the birth world talk about having control over your contractions, but I found that I could kind of dial them up or down in intensity. I could decide if I wanted to have one right then, or if I wanted to wait a little bit. And it was this really powerful experience of like, oh, this isn’t just something that’s happening to me that I just have to make it through somehow. Enjoy as much as I can. But I do actually have a hand in this process, which just felt like it opened up the mystery, unlocked Pandora’s box. So I kind of sent them back down to the house. My husband and I are up in the garden, and we go inside. So there’s a couple of houses on this property. The one house that we were at, they were on vacation. So we go inside their house for a little bit, and bounce on the birth ball. Just kind of taking our own space. And there’s this huge bay window with, I don’t know how many hummingbird feeders, but there had to be at least 20 hummingbirds all feeding right in front of us, glistening in the sun. It was just like a dream, and so I just soaked in this gorgeous spring day, these amazing sensations I was feeling in my body, all of the kind of sensory information that was creating this experience. And it just got more delicious the more I tuned in to what I was feeling, hearing, smelling, sensing inside of my body. I just started to really get hit with this wave of like, oh, this is good. Whatever this is, I could stay here for a while. And then that’s when contractions really picked up, and I had my first moment of, holy crap. That was really intense. I don’t know if I can do this. Not so much that I don’t know if I can do this, but more like, okay, I gotta get my wits about me if this is what it’s going to be like. It surprised me how powerful this sensation were. So at this point that we start to head down to our house, and this is when my midwives noted that active labor had begun. There’s this field between the two houses and they were watching me walk with my husband. It’s not very big, but I had to stop maybe three times to just kind of hang on him and squat. And from there, it gets a little blurry. But I noticed, okay, the next thing that happened was I got in the shower. They’re setting up the birth pool, setting up the music and candles, everything that I had wanted for the environment. I get in the shower, and I’m still kind of having that conversation with myself of, wow, these are intense sensations. I have to wrap my head around these. I have to say yes to these, because it’s not going to get easier. It’s gonna get less intense. We want it to get more intense. And so it was just really reminding myself that these sensations are me. They are literally created by love, by oxytocin. I’m literally just feeling love and bliss coursing through my body. It’s just really powerful. So I get out of the shower, and I start using the bathroom and preparing, and I feel a contraction coming on. I’m instantly afraid of it. I do not want to have a contraction while I’m using the bathroom. I have my husband in there with me and I’m like, oh, God, it’s happening. And my one painful contraction of the whole labor, I tensed in anticipation of it. I shot up off the toilet, I gripped the towel bar in front of me, I got up on my tippy toes, tightened every muscle in my body and just yelped. It was so painful. I immediately realized that I had witnessed that sensation in my Doula clients so many times, the same body posture, trying to get away from it. I looked at him when the contraction was over, kind of panting. I said, I am never having a contraction like that ever again. That sucked. That’s not what I’m gonna do. That’s not what I want to sign up for. So I made it my sole purpose. So my sole focus from that point on is to stay as relaxed as I possibly can. To use my breath, use my awareness of when a contraction was starting to build before it peaked to just go totally limp and loose. And from that point on, that joy, pleasure, enjoying all the music, the sensations and everything together, it came back times 20. It suddenly became so much more delicious. I’m kind of doing this rhythm and this ritual where I’m walking back and forth between the bathroom and my bed. During a contraction, I squat on the side of the bed, and I’m rolling my hips and kind of remembering my belly dancing classes that I took years ago. And I love music. I have my damp shower towel in my hands that I’m loving the sensation of it on my fingertips, and it was just like stepping into this dream world. I remembered at the time having a thought of, oh, I’m in labor land like this. These are endorphins that I’m feeling. I could do this forever. I just really luxuriated in that space, and I don’t know how long it lasted. It could have been just hours and hours, but I really don’t think it was. But it felt so expanded. So a little while later, my midwives say the birth pool is ready. I’m like, oh, no, it’s not time to get in yet. No way. It’s too early. And at the same time, I’m also kind of having this thought in the back of my mind. Like whoa, relief could be kind of nice. Might be nice to take the edge off because they were never painful except for that one. But that doesn’t mean they weren’t intense. They were powerful. And I had to really keep my focus and my breath to stay to keep riding the waves. I get in the birth tub, and I had heard so many birth stories where moms said that as soon as they dipped into the pool, they just felt this huge sense of relief. This wash of intensity kind of softening. And so I was expecting that. And then I get in the birth pool, and there’s no change. It was another one of those reality check moments of like, okay, this is how it is. I have to rise to this sensation to meet it so that it doesn’t topple me. Let’s get on board. So I think once I got on top of that, I just really went very deep inside of myself in that birth pool. I felt like I was experiencing the deepest meditation I had ever been. All of my yoga training, meditation practice and everything. It was all being used. I was using my relationship with my breath, and my ability to feel a sensation and just let it move through me. And it was really enriching in that way. It was invigorating to feel like oh, yeah, I got the skills. I got this. I can do this. And there’s something inherently sensual. When you’re being with those contractions, you’re moving your body, you’re just doing what feels good. You can hear the sound of your breath exhaling loud and long, and slow. And it felt like a very sensual experience. So I don’t know how long I was there. I guess my midwives notes said that my active labor was about six hours. And then I remember having a sense of, I’m in transition right now. I was feeling like I had to really work to stay on top of these contractions. So I was on my hands and knees, and the birth pool was pressing the top of my head into the side of the birth pool and moaning really loudly. And if I didn’t press hard enough, and I didn’t moan loud enough, it would feel overwhelming. So I had to just really focus. And then I started to have this sense of, I think I’m done. I’m kind of done with labor. I’ve had my time. I’m good. I got what I wanted out of the experience, I’m ready to meet my baby. And so I felt another one of those big transition contractions coming toward me. In my mind, I put my hand out to it and said, really firm, really clear. And I felt it kind of recede away, like watching a wave in the ocean pull back. And then I felt it come again. And again I said, no, I’m done. That’s it. That’s all we’re gonna do. And it receded, and it didn’t come back. So bringing back that, I do have some control in this. And then I found myself in that incredibly lovely rest and thankful face where it just kind of seemed like all the tone went out of my body. I floated in the water. In the pictures, I kind of looked like I’m not really there. I look like I love my body. I look sort of pale and just lifeless. But it wasn’t a negative experience. It was the deepest relaxation I’ve ever felt in my entire life before. And what was happening in my inner world was that I was swimming out into the cosmos, and I was finding my baby. It was this incredible experience where I was aware of these guides with me on the experience of, where is my baby? Let’s go find him. And it was like a star in the sky that I was sort of swimming my way. And as soon as I had my hands on him, suddenly, I was plunged back into my body, and my body was pushing.

Debra Pascali-Bonaro: So beautiful. Keep going now.

Carina Devi: This is too much as I go too fast. It’s my favorite story to tell and relive.

Debra Pascali-Bonaro: We can feel it. Everybody listening, you’re painting such a beautiful, powerful picture. So Carina, you are holding this baby and you’re feeling what now in your body?

Carina Devi: So the pushing sensation was very different. I felt overwhelmed by it in the sense that I felt like I didn’t have a reference point for such a powerful sensation. I remember being like, whoa, whoa. What do I grab on? What should I do? There was this sense of wanting to escape, this is too much. I’m out, I’m done. And what I was doing was I was trying to find a comfortable position. I thought like if I can just find the right position, it’ll take the edge off, and I’ll be okay. But that wasn’t happening. I’d kind of have one contraction pushing in one position, then I try something else, and it nothing ever changes. I was just like, do I hate pushing to it? Is the fun part over? What happened? And starting to get a little tired. I think between those pushing contractions, I was starting to fantasize about escaping in a variety of ways. I was like, I could just go to the hospital, I could just go have a C section. That sounds kind of nice. Which is funny because my whole pregnancy, I didn’t want that experience. I wanted to have a very natural experience. But now, I’m fantasizing about, how do I get myself to the car and drive myself to the hospital so I can have an epidural? 

And it’s so funny how even without pain, even with pleasure, even with this very strong commitment to the most natural experience that you can have, there was still that desire to escape. And so my Doula brain kind of kicked in. I was like, okay, we’re getting close. I know what this is. I know we all pretty much reached this point at some point. And right as I was still in that space, I don’t want to do this anymore. I’m done. I start hearing talk of transferring amongst my midwives, and I don’t remember why I don’t know what was going on. But hearing like, yeah, we might want to just watch a couple more, and then decide if we want to go. I was like, oh, hell. No, I’m not going anywhere. I’m not getting out of this birth tub. I am having my baby at home, and so I really had to dig deep to find that place where it wasn’t running away from the sensations. I wasn’t dreading them or tensing in anticipation of them. But I could just accept the intensity, I could accept the power. And it took me a little while. I had been pushing for about an hour and my midwife asked if she could check me, and I had let her know ahead of time. I don’t want any cervical exams unless something’s going on. And we really want some more information. So at that point, I was like, let’s see what’s going on. And his forehead was presenting, so he couldn’t really come down the way he was. So she said, I’m gonna push on his head. During your next contraction, I want you to push down into my fingers. And so that’s exactly what happened. It worked great. 

His little chin tucked, the back of his head came forward, and I just felt this sweet, like he dropped down to inches, at least, inside of me. And it was the most crazy experience, a crazy sensation. But it kind of gave me this boost of like, oh, okay, we’re getting closer. We’ve got this new sensation to get to know, it just kind of felt like it took me from one chapter that I really didn’t like reading into the next one where there was this sense of adventure. Let’s see what happens in the story now. So they asked me to get out of the pool, let’s try pushing somewhere else. Maybe the pool isn’t really working for you right now, and they have me sit on a barstool. I remember hating that thing. I just wanted somewhere to grip my hands, and I kept feeling under the seat and down the legs. And there was just nowhere that felt right. And again, I’m just trying to find that place in myself where I can embrace what I’m feeling instead of trying to push it away. So I kind of get to this point where I’m just tired of pushing, I’m tired of feeling the sensation, I’m really ready to meet my baby. And when I was on the birth stool, I was in front of this full length mirror in my bedroom, and I had my birth altar set up. So there’s some pictures of goddesses, and there’s affirmations, and candles, all the things that I had selected to be my anchor in a moment just like that that I might need. And so I’m just looking at everything on my birth altar and I start to see some of the words come into focus. I see one that I had written that says the only way out is through. That’s it. That’s my mantra. 

And so I just start repeating to myself, the only way out is through, the only way out is through. And that really got me into this place where I was able to stop resisting and say, it doesn’t matter if I’m afraid of tearing, if I feel like I’m gonna split in half, if I’m afraid of dying, or whatever kind of place our fear might bring us to. I know that there’s only one way for this to end, and it is by me saying yes, and pushing my baby out. And so I just found this lioness wild woman in me, and I grew up the size of the chair. And every time a contraction would come, I would just bear down. I had actually really wanted to just experience the fetal ejection reflex, and I had watched all these beautiful hypnobirthing videos of moms. You don’t even realize they’re pushing, and suddenly a baby pops above the water. So it was very different from what I had in mind. But I really needed to traverse that place where I wanted to run away, but I had to turn toward the thing that I was afraid of or wanting to escape to say yes to it. To bring my baby forth. I felt like that was so important. Part of it was such an important maturation process for me becoming a mother. 

And so I just heard these guttural noises coming from the depths of my being, roaring, growling and it felt so primal and alive to feel that in me. To hear those sounds coming from me, to feel the heat in my body building, to feel my baby moving down every few pushes. And then I remember feeling his head and being told his head is out. I reached down and just felt the slippery warm, velvety little. It doesn’t really feel like a head, yet it just kind of feels a little like the top of a jellyfish. And I swear, my eyes rolled back in my head in pleasure. It was the most amazing thing I had ever felt up until then. Then I push, again my midwife says, okay, the ring of fire is coming. So just hold back. I didn’t feel it so I just pushed and felt his entire body slide through mine, feeling his shoulders, his hips, his knees, every part of him coming through me. It was the single most wonderful sensation I’ve ever felt in my life. I would give birth 40 times in my life just to feel that one second of that level of pleasure and just divinity. Comes out, my husband and my midwife catch him together and grab him. I’m just like my baby. He was so beautiful. I looked between his legs, and I saw he’s a boy. Shout it to the world. It was just the absolute height of my life. That was what I had worked for. That was what I had faced all those kinds of thresholds for. That was when I tuned out all of the noise and people saying, I couldn’t do it, or I was too small, or too young or whatever. That was the moment of victory that I had heard other women talk about and ravel in that I wanted to experience myself. And that has stayed with me ever since. I think it will be with me my entire life. Like that is the peak in all my memories and all my experiences.

Debra Pascali-Bonaro: Tears, right? Feeling the power, the passion, the emotion, the transformation. You’re telling the story just to bring us right there with you. And so many words of wisdom. What we resist, persists. How you really could look at the challenge ahead and make that choice. So much wisdom, so many lessons that came through your story. I know that’s one of two, there’s even more to come on the second birth coming. So Carina, so many lessons to learn, and we haven’t gotten to baby number two. So for everyone listening with us, we’re gonna stop here. But Carina is gonna come back for our next podcast and share all her lessons and story for baby two so stay tuned. But in the meantime, Carina, I know that people already want to follow you, find out how they can connect with you. Can you share how they can be in touch?

Carina Devi: Sure. Yeah. So on Instagram, my handle is Birth Keepers Library, and that’s where I’m putting everything right now. I’m three months postpartum, so I’m just really zoning it on that. So Birth Keepers Library on Instagram.

Debra Pascali-Bonaro: Fantastic. And that’s in the show notes. Those of you that have been listening now, check that out, connect with Carina. We always love it if you tag her, tag us that orgasmic birth. We love to hear from you, and hear what you’re taking. What inspired you today? Whether you’re giving birth soon. Maybe you’re a doula or a midwife listening, how are you birthing forward? Carina has great wisdom, and gets ready for her second birth on our next episode of the Orgasmic Birth Podcast.